Once in a while, something needs fixing in the house and I just don’t have the time, desire, or know-how to fix it myself. During those oh-so-rare occasions, I am usually floored by the check I have to write. Here’s a perfect example. Our kitchen faucet has been leaking and threatening to completely break for the last few months. I took a close look at the situation since I am certainly capable of replacnig the faucet myself, and I noticed two issues. First, our sink is deep and the faucet is very close to the back splash. There just isn’t much room to work. I also noticed that our cold water shut-off valve was seizing up. Combined with the fact that I have my hands full with the shop build and other projects, it was time to call in a pro.
The guy took a look at the situation, pulled out his handy pricing guide, and told me that it would cost about $400 to replace the faucet using the new faucet I already purchased. He also said he would replace the cold water shut-off for $250. I thanked him for his time, paid the $60 trip fee, and decided that I was going to have to figure this crap out myself.
My step-dad, who has much more plumbing experience than I do, promptly came over to serve as my wing man and we had the job done in less than an hour. Turns out it wasn’t as difficult as I thought it would be although my back certainly didn’t enjoy the endeavor! So let’s assume I did pay the pro to do the job. If I could do it in about an hour, he sure as heck could have done it in half the time. Billing me $400 for the job would make his rate about $800/hr!! Yeah, chew on that for a while.
So the point of all this is not to diminish the value of our friendly neighborhood plumbers, but to encourage you to charge what you’re worth! If you happen to be in the position to sell your woodworking, please do NOT undervalue your time. Just because you enjoy doing it doesn’t make it any less valuable. I think that’s where many hobbyists/part-time pros get hung up. We see a paying job as something to help us break even. Well pardon my French but screw that! You should be charging for not only materials, but your time. And don’t forget about the elusive x-factor called “profit”. Every project you sell should absolutely bring in a substantial profit. We can’t compete with big box store prices and we shouldn’t even try. People who buy cardboard furniture are not our customers anyway…..yet. The pieces you create will outlast your lifetime and many more to come. We stand in defiance of the disposable society we find ourselves in. Take pride in that stance, build great furniture, and if you sell it, charge appropriately.
I am calling my congress man to ban disposable furniture, how more children have to suffer? sniffle sniffle Well put Marc!
Joe Dillon, probably one of the best posts I’ve seen in this thread; well said.
I am enjoying the show…
Hi there
I’m a carpenter and do a lot of private domestic work. At first I found it difficult to figure out a value on the work I provided. But I was forced to start charging double the rate I would receive from a sub contractor. I had to do this to cover overheads tools fuel parking getting materials, designing and planning all of which cost time and money. If I considered the work bespoke I charged more.
I would never get into a bidding war with a customer or allow them to determine the rate I was paid. When those occasions arose I simply said “thanks but no thanks”
For small jobs I always have a minimum fee which some might consider high but this is my point, all that matters is that no one else can place a value on your time experience and skill, you are the only person that can do that. You charge what you are happy to do the work for. Once people understand that you are a skilled tradesman they are happy to pay and more importantly spread the good word according to joe.
Thanks for taking the time to read this next week I will delivering my thoughts on mayo and is out really all that.
Regards
Joe the joiner
I’ve learned a lot here, mostly that woodworkers don’t know much about economics.
Ted,
Very true. I think it is more that they just don’t see the demand side of it as you stated in your post above. Most people understand economics; they just don’t understand how it equates into their business. In these times people’s disposable income is just not there for the average family to have the artisan crafted living room furniture that they desire. Naturally they are becoming more drawn to the big box store cheapo stuff, and the demand goes down. In my opinion sometimes our pride as woodworkers (I’m sorry – artists) clouds our business judgment. By all means take pride in what you make but don’t become so full of it that your customer base confuses your confidence for arrogance. As you stated they have to be able to supplement their business with something that pays the bills. The margin might not be there but it pays the bills. Take Marc for example, he creates some beautiful stuff, but he also does refinishing and I believe some commercial jobs (correct me if I am wrong Marc). Look at the website, the ads on the side bars are not there because he thinks they look pretty. They pay the bills. I would love to hear about the demand where you are from Ted and Marc. Are you noticing any trends in the demand? What are customers asking for in terms of product where you are from? What are your thoughts on dealing with the fluctuating demands in your area? Let’s help them understand economics rather than just state the problem.
Chris
I constantly see examples of woodworkers undercharging (mainly in America) and it really annoys me. Trying to make a living from woodworking is hard enough without hobbyists or semi retired woodworkers charging really low rates and making us all look bad.
Whatever you do to work out your costs take the total figure and times it by 3 if you realistically want to make a living from woodwork. I see things on sites like Etsy and can’t believe the low prices they are charging. PUT YOUR PRICES UP PEOPLE!
We are artists not plumbers.
“WE ARE ARTISTS, NOT PLUMBERS!”
I agree, Andrew. I put the words “Artisan Crafted” in my business tag line for a reason.
Here is another point to chew on. That plumber has to be insured just in case something he does goes wrong and floods a house. I bet that insurance isn’t cheap.
Woodworkers can (and according to some authorities on the subject, should) get similar insurance in case the bookcase they build topples onto someone’s head.
But how many hobbyists (or even pros) have that insurance and do they figure that into their rates?
I am a Plumbing Artist, thank you very much :-)
Andrew,
First off don’t make statements like “mainly in america”. It makes your opinion about as worth while as a boobs on a bull (Sorry Marc).
As for “Trying to make a living from woodworking is hard enough without hobbyists or semi retired woodworkers charging really low rates and making us all look bad.” statement, YOU are the only person that can control your company image! If you produce hobbyist quality furniture and call yourself a “pro” then look no further then your front door. Lets not forget unless you bought the company that you work for, you were a “hobbyist” at one point.
David,
I agree with you on the fact that you have to separate yourself from others in the market. Which is one of my points with Andrew. I work (Day Job) in the granite and solid surface industry. During the latest housing boom, I can remember when granite was being sold for close to $75 a square foot. Then smaller shops started popping up all over the market. Just to give you an example people were opening fabrication shops out of their garages. For those who do not know a “slab” of granite that is 3cm thick can weigh anywhere from 800 to 1,100 pounds and measure 72″ x 96″ or larger. This brought on some competition and the price down (close to $39 a sq ft). The pro shops carried all of the required insurance and had all of the operating costs while the hobbyist had little to none of those. This would lead you to think that they could have the majority of the market cornered but it was quickly sorted out by the economic crisis and the quality of work produced. Low and behold they could not produce the quality in the time frame that pro shops could. Guess what…….. All of the “pro shops” that I sell too are still here!
So my point is that hobbyists and retired guys aren’t taking all of your business. Price your stuff to what you see fit.
P.S. I make stuff for people when they ask. I may even go to a couple of fairs, sell some peices but I don’t advertise and the such. If that makes me the devil so be it…. it just proves my mom right! ;)
Marc,
Seems like this questions really stirred some comments. May I recommend that you post a video on how to pricing a product, both forward and reverse pricing. By forward pricing, I mean building a product and then calculating requesting the price. Reverse pricing is (like your step stool). You wanted something to sell for $20 at the flea market and reversed engineering the stool to meet that price point.
I do believe this is a very overlooked portion of woodworking, both by the woodworker and the customer.
I know there are some accountants out there that simply 3x the cost of materials to come up with the final price. If there are any of those formulas you have found helpful please include.
I really believe you have an opportunity to make a major impact on the small business woodworker with this topic. I hope you don’t overlook it as being too simple. Some might say tuning a jointer is easy. But you took it to the extreme and many of us benefited greatly from it. Your work on jointer tuning is standing out as the epitome teaching on tuning a jointer.
Thanks
John
I seems the plumber is taking your advice. To bad he thinks his time was worth all that, because he priced himself right out of job, and a paycheck.
Wrong. He charged money just to show up and overprice the job.
Seems like people also need to consider the equipment they build things with… Nice large planers jointers, belt sanders, large dust collectors… All make a piece of furniture easier and faster to build. Although one has to also charge the cost of owning that equipment too. If you use equipment that is not efficiently working for you… You should expect to work for less money (per hour).
Woodworking, even with modest tools, is expensive! I don’t know how much I have spent… But that’s a lot of furniture to just break even.
Don’t forget that the space you use should also factor in. Imagine if you had to rent space elsewhere.
It seems most of the discussion above (admittedly I didn’t read every word) focuses on the “supply” side of “supply and demand”. It sounds nice to add an hourly rate, shop fees, and profit together to come up with a price, but if there is no demand at that price you better like what you just built because you’re going to own it a long time. Regardless of what you think your work is worth, it’s not if there isn’t a customer who also thinks so and is willing to pay for it. Sometimes things (including woodworking) have to be priced based on demand and sold for less than we’d like. If that’s not acceptable then don’t take the job. I have a “standard inventory” of products and some of them are priced at a lower “hourly rate/profit” than others simply because I have competitors who sell very similar items at the lower price. I continue to list them simply because they often “complete” an order with higher profit items or lead to future sales of higher profit items.
The rates that plumber quoted are insane. I’d probably call the local investigative reporter with a story suggestion just to warn others away from them.
I have kind of a twisted logic on pricing, I price easy things high because I don’t want the work. If I was willing to make window screens in my area at the normal price here of $30 per window, I would stay extremely busy making screens and build nothing I enjoyed making. I know I under charge for my time on projects I take on anyway and that is mainly because I know a proessional could finish the job quicker, make less mistakes and deliver atleast a slightly better product in the end. As I get better I expect to be able to do it faster and better, but for the time being I have to eat the additional cost of learning on some things. I have adjusted my pricing upward for two reasons, first I found I was really bad at estimating the time needed and secondly I have limited time available for woodwork. Since I have a full time job and a family, I have limited time for my hobby. I also do all my woodworking to support the Wounded EOD Warrior Foundation and The EOD Memorial foundation, so anything above my direct costs on a project goes to help this or in a few cases to build projects directly for Wounded EOD. I have a hard time telling people no when they ask but I do ask enough to make sure the time I spend on a project is respected.
A quick story: When I was at stationed in South Carolina, one of my co-workers was trying to get rid of a cat before he moved. He listed the cat for free in the local paper for two weeks with no responses, he was desperate. His wife listed the cat for sale, $200., he not only sold it the first day he had to turn down several calls wanting to buy it for the next week. If you tell people how cheap your work is, they assume the value isn’t there. Let people know that your time and talent has value and they will either pay or (as stated above) go to IKEA.
Myself, being a professionally/ hobbyist woodworker have always had difficulty in knowing how to price out my time and work fairly. Lately it seems I’ve been getting more per hour just letting the customer know how many hours I’ve put into a project and the cost of materials and then let them pay me what they think is fair. It was kind of scary to do it this way but I’ve been finding that I’m getting more than I would normally ask. Who knew !
You must live in an expensive part of the world. A $60 trip fee? I had a faucet problem last week. The fellow came out, removed the faucet and diagnosed the problem – a failure in the brass inner body. We returned the part to the vendor who contacted the firm’s representative in the US. The German manufacturer was very apologetic and sent a pair of taps by UPS back to us in Canada for free. The plumber made a second trip to install the new faucet and at the same time replace the water feeds with flexible aluminum hose. Total cost for his time – $30.
I recently delivered a small piece made for a neighbour and charged my material costs of $85, the wood I got for free. As I was learning to create this rounded piece at the same time, I did not charge my time which I estimate would run around $2,000. I learned the technique required which was ample payment and the next time I do it, it will take a fraction of the time that I invested.
Roger,
$60 for a job condition survey on site by a plumber is not excessive; in fact it barely covers the expenses for a plumbing firm.
Today, even if a plumber is moonlighting, charging $30 for 2 service trips is pure fantasy. Incidental business costs alone are in excess of that amount. Currently in larger cities in Canada, most plumbing firms charge $60-$90 per hour for a plumber. A licensed plumber with no affiliation with a firm generally charge less, usually $35-$50 per hour (and a jack of all trades even less.)
Where both the plumbing firms and the independent plumbers make money on small jobs is through the profit they make on parts and supplies, which they usually purchase at high discounts (in the order of 55%).
JMP
Good info Marc. I have done most things construction wise in the past but now pay to have them done. Half of the time I spend trying to find a local honest tradesman. I have been lucky in that respect and have a roofer, painter and plumber I can trust. As far as pricing my own work, I start off by telling the customer that if they have seen exactly what they want in some store and the color, size and functionality is just what they want. They need to go and buy it. I can’t compete with furniture store prices and won’t try. That being said, most of my customers want a custome piece of furniture and understand that it will cost more. Since I am still a hobbiest I keep the shop rate low but charge for all the hours. To me this equates to the same price as I will charge when I do it full time.
A quick note on Vic’s point. Photography right now is suffering from hobbyist’s pricing. It seems since the DSLR has become affordable and that the camera does 80% of the work and software can correct some problems everyone (we call them MWC’s Moms with Cameras) thinks they are pro’s and don’t need to charge much because its just a little extra money. Wedding photography has taken the biggest hit I am literally down over 50% of the number of weddings I used to do. Because on Craigslist you can get someone who will do all day coverage for $500. I tell people you get what you pay for in life. On the up side getting phones call asking me if I can fix other people’s work are up 300%. I always decline those jobs though. So in some cases prices that seem too low to be good, usually are.
Assuming a 40hr work week, which I’m guessing is less than full-time for most plumbers, this guy believes his time is worth around 1.5 million dollars per year whether he receivers that or not. In the end, he was still paid pretty well for his time ($60 trip fee) and didn’t do anything.
So who are the clientele paying such outrageous fees? Being paid what you’re worth is ultimately a matter what people are willing to pay you. This guy or company apparently has clientele willing to pay $400 for half an hour of labor to fix a faucet. It seems to me that’s where the problem lies.
I cant believe this post and the comments. Plumbers, along with auto mechanics, are one of the worst to deal with in terms of their predatory pricing of their services. I have paid them more hourly rates and even my highly skilled surgeon doesn’t get and I am not kidding! To extrapolate this experience with your plumber to your own work somehow seems crazy to me.
By no means am I saying that you shouldn’t price your services as you value them. Plumbing is a rare emergency and people who aren’t handy have to cough up the money. But furniture is not quite like that. There is only so much market for handcrafted high-value furniture and not every fine craftsman commands the price. How many of the amateur woodworkers started woodworking because they couldn’t afford the price of decent furniture?
I know this is not what the pro woodworkers like to hear. Very few people will spend 10k on a piece of furniture. The trick is in being able to build decent quality furniture for an affordable price and still make a living. Volume rather than exclusivity may be the key for most people.
It would be an interesting exercise for someone to take the furniture prices from century ago and adjust it for inflation and see where it puts their prices.
“It would be an interesting exercise for someone to take the furniture prices from century ago and adjust it for inflation and see where it puts their prices.”
Our woodworking club visited a shop where the furniture is made completely using around 1875 technology. He was asked about his pricing, on a chimney cupboard made of pine it would have cost you about $3, today he will charge you $300, he says the price has stayed the same when adjusted for inflation.
The classic triangle of home repairs. Pick only two:
a.) Good
b.) Cheap
c.) Fast
In fairness to the plumbers, plumbing is one trade that’s fiendishly difficult to estimate. Marc already noticed that the shut off valves would need to be replaced. (I’ve learned the hard way to consider shut off valves disposable and simply assume from the outset that they have to go.) It’s not unusual for small jobs to spiral into larger jobs…sometimes much, much larger jobs.
Thanks for the encouragement Marc! Even relatively simple designs can be wrought with challenges and time consuming tasks. Banging a few boards together is one thing, but joining heirloom quality furniture, even if it is rustic, is far more time-consuming than most people realize. The lesson I keep learning over and over again, is that even if something looks simple, there are vast amount of steps involved that go into making the “simplicity” feel like and become a quality piece.
Thanks for all you do Marc!
You mention X-factor. A good friend of mine is a world recognized potter. At a show, someone picked up one of her bowls, saw the price and asked, “How long did it take you to make this?” obviously trying to calculate a time/value. My friend Victoria, without missing a beat replied, “About 35 years.” referring to how long she had been dedicate to perfecting her craft and all the previous experience she had gained leading up to that bowl.
Now I am going to fix my own faucet!
Good move on your part. Maybe there are some many people and companies in your area that have so much money they don’t care what they pay. I don’t know how long this company was in business, but at that kind of rate, I would guess you would never call them back for another job.
I’ve done a little plumbing in my younger days, can’t get my body to twist like that anymore. If your step-father didn’t introduce you to Mr. Faucet Wrench, go to your local hardware store and ask for one. You won’t need it very often, but when you do, you can’t beat it.
For you and other professional woodworkers, the Walmart/IKEA/ Kmart shopper are probably not really your customers, thought they might be some day. A well made piece of furniture is not only functional, it is beautiful to look at and to touch. I saw a fellow (Bob Kowalski http://www.kowalskifurnituredesign.com/) showing his work at the Big-E (our local fall fair in New England) and loved his work. After a few years I was able to afford a piece. He took a standard design and customized the dimensions to fit a specific space for us. Since then we have been able to buy several more pieces from him. Now that I am retired and trying to learn woodworking, my goal is to try to make a piece that is as close to being as nice as his work. My point is don’t any of you sell your self short. A well designed and well crafted piece of furniture is something that will be handed down for decades if not hundreds of years.
Marc,
I really enjoy your weekly wrap ups. Taking a day off from the shop was great advice. And I just recently realized that one of my pet peeves is a faucet too close to the edge of the sink. It really makes no sense.
Anyhoo, my prices are often criticized and the comments following usually indicate ignorance of the labor / materials involved in creating a piece of furniture. Yet, occasionally someone will say my prices are low. A friend of mine who teaches swimming had a wise motto, “I don’t lower my prices, I just find better clients.” First step: Stay away from the tar pits of Craigslist.
-Charles
Thanks for the encouragement to the hobbyist Marc. I actually have plans for my first project to sell at a profit. It’s something that my wife asked me to make for her. I figured I will buy enough materials to make two, then I’ll take one to a local consignment/arts store.
I found your explanation on how to price your work in the FAQ to be very helpful. I will be tracking my time and material costs so I can determine a final price tag. :-)
It’s pretty scary when you have to pay for an estimate. Some of these guys jack up the repair costs so high that they know no one will bite so they make easy money on the estimate. If he can do 5 of those a day, he’s done well. If you agree to his outrageous price he has also done well. There is far too much greed in this country right now.
I can’t tell you how many times I call someone to fix/work on something and I end up doing the work myself. Few exceptions the roof on my metal barn, I wasn’t crazy about getting on top and work on the roof so I hired someone.
I used to do a lot of finish work on home remodel projects where I charged a decent hourly rate, but I always had trouble charging the profit and overhead that a lot of contractors charge. So, when it was time to repair a tool, buy a new one or sharpen blades and knives it all came out of my pocket. So much for the hourly wage. When I started making and selling finished woodworking project I would charge based on how many hours I had in the project. Then I would often reduce the charge because “I would never pay that much for a piece of furniture”. That didn’t work out very well. Now I charge based on time and add a shop charge which covers most of my overhead. It is so important to not be embarrassed by charging what it cost to do a job, as if it is somehow not legitimate. There is nothing romantic about being a starving artist.
I don’t mean to argue with the above, but, being a plumber (and a darn good one if I do say so myself), that plumber was trying to gouge you.
Well, it wasn’t even just “a plumber”. It was a major outfit. Apparently gouging is just a company policy, especially when you aren’t buying the materials from them.
I agree about charging for your work . These {people} who undercharge for their products have made it almost impossible for those of us who need to make a living at home which I no longer can do( I am a caregiver & even if my health would allow outside work , my relatives health would prohibit it. I have several thousand dollars in equipment ,as most woodworkers do, when I was working I could not afford to to sell below cost or even at a breakeven price. If these hobbyist want to give away their work , donate it to charities for door prizes or build tables for the poor to use (I can no longer make an item in a time frame that I can make money,my heart prevents working more than a few minutes a day).
I work for a “outfit”. There are other outfits that charge those outlandish prices, and claim to be “cleaner, faster, better”. They stay in business because their are suckers born every minute. As far as woodworking, you are being beat by cheap, knockdown garbage from walmart, target, Sears, whatever. That’s why I do my woodworking. I got tired of furniture that falls apart after a couple years. If you leave a drink with no coaster on my stuff, it gets a ring. If you leave a drink with no coaster on theirs, it litterally falls apart, back into sawdust. Hard to compare plumbing to woodworking.
I can do plumbing…….have done quite a bit…….but I hate plumbing. I am 6’3″ and weigh in around 230#. Have you ever really noticed where they put the pipes? I can hardly get an arm in there. When we did the slab for the new master suite wing of the ranch house, I hired a pro……and he charged me out the wazoo to stub in for the slab. Just because some people get the big $$$ does not mean they know what the heck they are doing. I have a divider wall in the bathroom that is 7 3/4″ thick because I had to fur in to get the pipes in the wall. Needless to say, when I built the vanity, the doors are wide enough for my wide self to get to the pipes.
There are times when it is prudent to say uncle and call for help…….but damn I hate to pay someone to do something that I can do.
Also keep in mind that if, you as a hobbyist, think it’s OK to sell for very little because you’re a hobbyist, you diminish the livelihood of the rest of the woodworkers who are trying to actually make a living. So, my two cents is to either give it away or charge a true going rate. Nothing in between.
Well illustrated and it applies to all manner of freelancers, including artists, craftsmen, web designers or writers. Get paid for what you do and be prepared to pay a fair rate for the work you have done by others.
Carpet cleaning is another example. In and out in 45 minutes, and charge $100 or more. They can, because of equipment needed, more than experience required. Woodworking is probably a combination of the two.
I like your comments. When I first started woodworking I had made benches, shelves and nick-nak items to sell in local flea market. Not knowing what to price I did not sell one item over the whole weekend. Guess I had too much confidence? Months later since I had a good inventory of produsts I setup in front of one my friends house during a festival in town. I had adjusted down my pricing and as the day went on, I dopped a little more. By days end (Only one day) I sold everything, plus as taken orders for a couple custom mail boxes. I learned a few things that day.
I do woodworking a hobby. I do repairs for some co-workers and friends. I charge only for materials and not so much for labor. If I charged for labor, I would on charge $15.00 dollars an hour. I think I may need to re-think my skill level and re-adjust. By the way I used to do most of my plumbing, but after some bad experience’s I use the local pro.
Well said! The other component favoring a charge is establishing a value. If you do not charge for it, it has a lower value to the owner. An artist does not charge the cost of his canvas and paints plus his time- he or she charges for the value of item as a piece of art as well. To undervalue is not fair to the artist in you!
Marc,
The value of a product or service is largely subjective.
The price a person will accept to pay has much less to do with the design or inherent quality of whatever you offer; is is mostly related with the perception of the potential client.
That is why great marketers don’t even try to simply sell you a product, they sell you a list of benefits that will motivate you to select their product in order to enjoy the benefits the seller has identified for you.
Your plumber failed to sell you the potential benefits of retaining his service. He also probably overestimated the difficlulty and risks associated with the job.
JMP
Marc,
I totally agree with your premiss. Unfortunately plumbing is my downfall. Professionals is 3 counties smile when I pick up a pipe wrench. Consequently I’ve searched out a pro in that field whose skill I trust and whose prices seem to make sense.
Those numbers sound like they were “emergency” rates. Pretty darn high! I’ve paid about $100 for a plumber to reinstall a toilet (I screwed up the flange when trying to reset it…) Pretty high for not much work for him, but definitely not that outrageous.
Quick story, had a buddy of mine that lives in a second floor condo. Water heater went, water was all over the floor of the closet and the adjacent living room. And of course the ceiling of the resident below. Did I mention this was Sunday morning? Yep, they got the deal of a lifetime. Had to pay triple time for sunday, fees for “opening the warehouse” on a sunday, you name it, they got nailed for it. I think before the guy left, they were out $3,500…for a gas water heater. Ouch.
You did good, and found a great way to turn a “plumbing problem” into a valuable woodworking lesson. Thanks for these friendly remiders to not forget the X-factor on our projects. (now if I can just justify my outrageous ‘x-factor’ to my friends and family…you know, the only people that get any of my projects.)
Marc,
It’s clear though that this guy was trying to charge what he thinks he was worth and you kicked him. That’s the balance we face. Having said that, I know I’ve fallen in the trap of what you said and not charged enough for my projects at times. I wish I had the ability to read the Client’s mind to know their price point OR be able to have Clients who are willing to have a discussion about their budget, design expectations and how the two go together without letting sticker shock get in the way. I wish I could tell them that these pieces are heirloom quality and will out live us and that’s the other part of what their paying for. Amortize the cost over 80-100 years and see how it quickly drops in cost per year… Oh well…that’s the age old business problem isn’t it?
Jay
Mark, you’re a stud…a very funny stud…enough said.
I am a licensed plumber in Illinois. The labor for that job from me would be 65 to 130 dollars. The shutoffs almost always need changed, because of the hard water here. Those would cost you between 10 to 15 dollars each. It amazes me that I can make a profit charging these prices, but other companies charge these outragous prices.
Marc – That is the kind of stuff that makes me so upset in this world of Today. Probably why I don’t have time in this world to do as much woodworking as I would like. Always trying to save the family money(that includes the extended family/friends). I am in the automotive business and some of the pricing from this industry floors me has well. Still not has bad has the medical industry but that is another story.
Could not agree more. It’s always good to get to know a good plumber, electrician etc. so you can trust the pricing a bit more… What was quoted above is outrageous.
Most of all I agree with your point about charging the full value of our work as woodworkers. It is most often undervalued by the creators right from the start.
What we make will last for at least a lifetime and most times much longer, it has artistic, design, functional, aesthetic, time and care value. It all needs to be added in and don’t forget to cover the costs of marketing, sales, and overhead.
SF
Right on Marc!, the first few projects I completed for clients, I wasn’t charging enough. And like you said, I realized that we should charge what we are worth as woodworkers, If the client wants to paid a IKEA price, then he’ll have to buy his furniture at IKEA. Our art is much more valuable!
I guess the hardest thing for me to judge, is, my time, and what that is worth. Some things should not take as long as they do, and I find myself second guessing a lot… which screws up the time! lol
John, I know what you mean. When I do a project I feel like a its something a pro could have done in a quarter of the time (if not faster). I guess that’s why they are called professionals. That’s also why they charge a professional rate. I’m taking that into consideration as I plan my first project for profit. I’m just a hobbyist, so as I figure out the price tag I want to put on the product I will calculate a hobbyist rate to counter the fact that it will take me more time than a professional. As my skills and quality improve over time then I can start charging a higher rate.
The plumber’s profit rate isn’t too shabby just from the $60 visiting fee.
But good advice to not sell yourselves short. I know I do it far too much in everyday life, not just in the work I do.
All one has is time. And if one is in the business of doing anything as a means to support themselves, then what could be move valuable than being reimbursed for our most precious commodity?
Yet, for that same reason, as I get older, I find myself making more and more projects to simply give away. Nothing huge nor crazy-expensive…..but where the cost of the materials doesn’t make a practical difference in my life, I enjoy the project more knowing that behind it is more than wood but part of my life shared.
Hi Marc,
You can also take it the other way. You pay the man to repair the faucet, meanwhile you work (woodworking, plumbing/electric job at your neighbor house etc.) and get a better pay for what you are good at.
my 2 cents.
On some jobs that makes sense. My shop is a good example. I am far better off paying someone else to do it while I do what I do best. In the case of the faucet, it doesn’t really apply. There really isn’t any way that I can add $400 of value to my business in one hour. But normally, I am a big fan of hiring things out for the sake of freeing up my time.